1969 Silverface Princeton Reverb

richardrichard
edited July 2014 in Root
Hi All,
The mystery of this Silverface is, well, it doesn't sound so good. An Ebay purch, it arrived in a very good looking original state. Plugging in it sounded great on the high 3 (really good sounding reverb too!) but the low 3 sounded flabby, flubby and rather annoying. I decided the original Oxford was to blame (or rather the best and easiest way to begin the fix, and also, to track it's progress). Well one new Weber 10F150T 2 sessions in the shop (changed the original caps, still have them) and still it hasn't risen to Mecca yet. Somewhat improved on the low 3's yet I still hear the flabby low end slightly, the reverb is brighter and a bit brittle now (new caps?) - and liked it better before the cap change.
So now I am so puzzled and wonder if any of you have similar experiences, but more importantly, where does the problem lie (don't feel I got my finger on it yet) and what is the fix.
This all started with my love of Marty Stuart, Kenny Vaughan and the Fabulous Superlative. Both these guys, and especially Kenny, are huge advocates of Silverface Princeton Reverbs and it's my wish to get that sound. Alas... Does anyone know who does Kenny's amp work?
Many thanks,
Richard

Comments

  • ruger9ruger9
    I too love Marty and Kenny. I don't know much about their personal amps, but to me it always sounded like they are running their guitar volumes at less than full on. Either that or they might be using the low input? Where Jim's sound has this great "lively edge" to it, I hear more of a "smoothness" out of Marty and Kenny. I don't know what they do, but I have been able to get a similar tone backing off the guitar vol a bit, or using the low input.

    That being said, Princetons- ALL of them (tweed, brown, blackface, silverface, reissues)- have issues with flabby bass. Jim seems to get around that with his speaker choices and by running the amp on 10 - but then running the guitar lower than 10. Basically, amp full blast and all gain changes made from the guitar itself.

    I was able to tighten up the bass response on my PRRI, but it took an upgraded output transformer, and a new speaker (I had tried both a Celestion Greenback and a Weber 10F150). Bottom line: Princetons weren't really designed to do tight bass, at least not with the guitar and/or amp cranked.
  • richardrichard
    Thank you Ruger for your comments and insight. I'll give the 10 a try. Curious what your speaker choice ended up being.
  • ruger9ruger9
    well, I no longer have the PRRI, because I bought a Supersonic 22, which is a much more versatile amp, it can do alot more tones than the PR, and it's clean channel sounds ALOT like the PR.... altho I'll admit, it's reverb can't touch the PR's, and of course the PR also has tremolo....

    But I found the PRRI, for LOWER-volume playing, fantastic, and my favorite speaker was the Celestion Greenback 10. I never really got on with the overdrive sound of the PRRI, which is why I sold it. GREAT amp for cleans, but I also play alot semi-clean, or semi-dirty (think Rolling Stones, I guess), and I found the PRRI just didn't hold together well for those tunes.

    All that being said, if I had the money and space to keep an amp around that I only use for ONE tone, I'd have kept the amp.
  • campinoutcampinout
    What gauge guitar strings do u use? Try a lighter set maybe 9s. Jim's speaker for those super loud gigs I believe is a vintage Jensen C10N. He uses NOS tubes also, if u are really pinning it like him u may find u need the same...but that is purely a guess. I have started to find in my experience, with old amps; tubes and speakers seem to need to be replaced right around the same time. A new speaker with tubes from 50 years ago...or visa versa...might not be the smoothest match. Again, this is purely uneducated speculation. Based on my experience only.
  • ruger9ruger9
    oh yeah... forgot about string gauge... I play thick-n-thins, which is basically 10s on the plain strings and 12s on the wound strings... I couldn't play 9s if you paid me. I used to play 9s back in my hair metal days, and tried to play 9s recently on my old Charvel (with Floyd Rose of course), but they were like rubber bands to me!

    Straight 10s are pretty loose for me too... I can play them, but it takes some finessing, as my playing style is a bit on the hard side (I hit the strings pretty hard)
  • campinoutcampinout
    edited July 2014
    Sometimes less is more. I believe Jim uses 9s, as the heavier gauges don't have as much definition when it is super loud. Especially the bass strings can be a bit much at high volumes. They probably make higher tension 9s these days. I use 10s most of the time but have a tele with 11s. Sometimes that low e string is a bit heavy and I have thought of swapping just that string for a lighter one, but have yet to do so. I think I read that Hendrix and/or Jimmy Page used 9s as well, but really don't recall fully. I think it is player preference. Also U may need to raise or lower your pickup?
  • halouishalouis
    and then a guitarist you may have heard of named BIlly Gibbons who says he always used 8's.
  • campinoutcampinout
    I believe the late Mikey Houser of Widespread Panic always used 9s on his Fender Tele plus deluxes of the early 90s which he played exclusively, and at the time they made the guy from fender come out of retirement to build the guitars/paint the "firestorm" finish specifically for him. He was the ultimate master tele player. Although according to him "it is wired like a strat." He also said he didn't know any scales, which is interesting. He was known for his mastery of the volume pedal and his tremolo effect which was a Soldano surf box, and just his overall tone and rig or whatever, really. The guy was just on permanent auto pilot the whole time. I've seen him play for 2-3 hours straight and never open his eyes once, even with vocals. Their live stuff with him is just ridiculous. Anyway...he used 9s. I think I could play any gauge strings as long as the guitar is well set up. Some chords or entire songs are easier on one type of guitar than another, be it long scale/short scale, neck carve and just little differences for certain chord progressions. Maybe string gauge is a factor there as well. Back to the amp though it could make a noticable difference to use a lighter e string but it's hard to discuss how an amp sounds online. To the owner of the SFPR I certainly would not give up so easily, based on what I have heard of Jim's amp at his shows!
  • ruger9ruger9
    edited July 2014
    yeah yeah yeah... and SRV used 13s. There is no "right" answer, regardless of how famous the player is. It's all about the tone, and especially feel, YOU want.

    I do kinda' come from the SRV school, of aggressive playing, meaning I hit the guitar pretty hard. Which is why I started using the thick/thin gauge in the first place.
  • richardrichard
    Hi All,
    I wish to thank all the folks who chimed in on this issue with my 1969 SF Princeton Reverb. All your comments were of great help. Turning the amp up to 10 and using the guitars volume knob was great! Going to a lighter set of strings was a big help too.
    I am still endeavoring to find out who works on Kenny Vaughans Amps. Anyone out there?
    Thanks
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