hafl diminished

edited April 2015 in Root
Hey Jim,

I have been digging into the arpeggio lesson and I really love it. I have been trying to run them over the few standards I know without the charts, as you suggested. My question is - some of the tunes have minor ii V7 I's where the first chord is m7b5. What arpeggio do you use over that chord?

Thanks,
Nick

Comments

  • edited April 2015
    You can play a m7b5 arpeggio - See below, that's a "4" that was cut off- you start on the D, first finger, 5th fret, 5th string.... - but when the m7b5 functions as a ii chord I find it easier to think of a m7b5 chord as a minor 6 chord...

    Dm7b5 can be thought of as Fm6 since the Dm7b5 chord has D (the minor 6 of F), Ab (the minor 3 of F, C (the 5th of F) and F ....

    or you can simply play a minor arpeggio - F minor for Dm7b5... or you can play a Bb9 arp, or F penatonic or .... argh!

    Take care Nick

    image
  • Jim,

    Thanks so much for getting back to me so quickly and with such a great answer. I like the m7b5 arp and I'll try m6 as well.
    To get the m6, for ex in C, just replace the Bb's with A's?
    F is the b3 of D - is that the rule for getting the m6 for each m7b5?

    Thanks again,
    Nick
  • Hi Nick

    Jim is thee man for this of course but thought I'd try help out.

    If you are looking for the minor6 chord in the key of C then that is Am. It's a three note chord made up of A C E.

    If you're looking to create a minor6 chord with the root being C well that's different. That is a 4 note chord creating Cm6. To get a Cm6 you take a Cm chord made up of C Eb G and add an Ab rather than an A. This is because in the scale of Cm there is no A as it is flattened.

    I hope this makes sense, if not let me know and I can try explain the steps in detail.

    Good luck with it.

    Martin
  • Hey Martin,

    Thanks for the help. It was the Cm6 arpeggio I was thinking of and your explanation makes perfect sense. Appreciate it.

    Playing these arpeggio's over chord changes is like re-learning how to play the guitar. It's eye-opening.

    Nick
  • Happy to hear you're enjoying your playing, Nick. New bits of theory getting applied to your playing can be lots of fun and very rewarding.

    I find that lots of ii V I licks have arpeggios clustered within them and so they really help lead playing come along. Good for developing technique too as they get your fingers going in directions that maybe they're not used to.

    Martin
  • I still have a lot of work to do on this one, but I want to take the voice leading lesson next. Have you done that one?

    Concurrently, I did All of Me and just started Up a Lazy River. Running the arpeggios over All of Me was when I really started to see what was going on. I have yet to try All the Things You Are (from the arpeggio lesson) but I should start on that one this week too.
  • TakTak
    edited April 2015
    I believe the m6 chord is minor triad with major 6th. so Cm6 is C, Eb, G and A. It's from the Dorian scale, etc.
  • Tak,

    So - from the Cmaj scale, I, b3, 5 & 6. Is that right?

    That jibes with the chord. When I play C-7 on the 8th fret, the notes are C(1), Bb(b7), Eb(b3), G(5), C(octave). To make the C-6, I move 1 fret lower on the 4th string - A - which is the maj6 in key of C.

    I wonder why the 6 is not flat. Don't you flat 3rd, 6th and 7th of the major scale to make a minor scale?

    Thanks,
    Nick C
  • TakTak
    edited April 2015
    Hi, Nick

    It's a dorian scale, not a natural minor scale (aeorian).

    The diatonic chords in C natural minor scale are Cm7, Dm7b5, EbM7, Fm7, Gm7, AbM7, Bb7.
    The Fm7 (Fm6) is a F dorian scale (= C natural minor scale).

    e.g.
    key of G minor
    Am7b5 - D7 > you can play a Cm6 (Cm triad) over an Am7b5. Essentially the same chords with different names as Jim explains.
    In other words, you can play a minor triad minor 3rd above over a m7b5 chord. Cm/A = Am7b5
    Understanding these things on the keys rather than on the fingerboard is much helpful.

    I hope this answers your question though.

    Best,
    Tak
  • Yes, I didn't think of it from the Cm scale - that does help.
  • good work guys! Thank you
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